Author Topic: Blue Blood  (Read 14764 times)

Offline Hackstaple

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Blue Blood
« on: Thursday 02 September 04 11:01 BST (UK) »
I am puzzled. A great many American family historians claim that they are descended from Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Sir Isaac Newton, Shakespeare, Alexander the Great and other such famous names - I have seen the Charlemagne claim many times - here is one such website devoted entirely to delusion http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Pond/7984/krslgst.html .
I am particularly amused by those who are "descended from" Richard the Lionheart and Elizabeth I, neither of whom ever had children.
Either "professional" genealogists in the States operate like fortune tellers - you hear what you wish to hear - or the descendants of almost everybody famous simply picked up sticks and went across the Atlantic. Why do the Americans, who grabbed independence well over 200 years ago, strive so hard to prove they are really British?
Why do none of these people with fabulous pedigrees claim kinship to Attila the Hun or Vlad the Impaler or Dr. Crippen? That might be more credible! :P

Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena.
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Offline Kazza

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Re: Blue Blood
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 02 September 04 11:23 BST (UK) »
Hi Hackstaple, 

Interesting question.   ;D

I think maybe as America is a relatively young country they know it is inevitable their family will have originated elsewhere,  and who knows where it could be.  It is surely an attractive prospect to be the lost descendent of the Virgin Queen.   ;D  And some people are more gullible than others.

This thread has an interesting post by D ap D:

http://www.rootschat.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8364.0

Maybe it is this theory that keeps people hoping?

Kazza.
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Offline Chris in 1066Land

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Re: Blue Blood
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 02 September 04 13:35 BST (UK) »
Hackstaple

I totally agree with you 100%

We often see these claims, but never see the proof.

As D&D pointed out in another thread, (incidentally a generation is normally classed as 30 years) - there were insufficient people on the earth to match up with our supposed ancestors.

If Adam & Eve were the first couple, then surely we must all be related.

Chris in 1066Land

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Offline Darcy

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Re: Blue Blood
« Reply #3 on: Friday 03 September 04 10:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Hackstaple,

I just had a look at that 'dreamtime' site. Are these people serious? I can't believe it ::)
Aaron
Fisher, Pitts, Lucas, Emmit, Keal, Bennett, Maddock, Jackson, Pidd, Lincolnshire <br />Bullock, Read, White, Gloucestershire.<br />Shepherd, Foyle, Crowter, Green, Wiltshire<br />Strickland, Fisher, Butterworth, Brown, Northhamptonshire<br />Shepherd, Bullock, Waterhouse, Lancashire
Fisher, Goodwin, Rutland
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Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: Blue Blood
« Reply #4 on: Friday 03 September 04 11:00 BST (UK) »
Along the same lines ....


A cachet for americans is to trace their ancestry back to the original "Mayflower Settlers".

According to the number of americans claiming descent from the original settlers, there must have been several thousand passengers on the Mayflower.

The "complete list" (http://www.mayflowerhistory.com/Passengers/passengers.php) says 99 !
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

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Re: Blue Blood
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 05 September 04 19:01 BST (UK) »
Hi folks

well im in total agreement all the way,im a Seymour out of wedlock :-[ so many lines down the chain, but im also british and proud of it......

i dont want any claim to fame only to find my grt grt grt grt grt grandpappy ;D.........have a nice day now you hear!...... ::)

Offline bloomkitty

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Re: Blue Blood
« Reply #6 on: Monday 06 September 04 17:23 BST (UK) »
I am puzzled. A great many American family historians claim that they are descended from Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Sir Isaac Newton, Shakespeare, Alexander the Great and other such famous names - I have seen the Charlemagne claim many times - here is one such website devoted entirely to delusion http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Pond/7984/krslgst.html .
I am particularly amused by those who are "descended from" Richard the Lionheart and Elizabeth I, neither of whom ever had children.
Either "professional" genealogists in the States operate like fortune tellers - you hear what you wish to hear - or the descendants of almost everybody famous simply picked up sticks and went across the Atlantic. Why do the Americans, who grabbed independence well over 200 years ago, strive so hard to prove they are really British?
Why do none of these people with fabulous pedigrees claim kinship to Attila the Hun or Vlad the Impaler or Dr. Crippen? That might be more credible! :P

I can only speak for this American.  It's been my experience that most American genealogists aren't necessarily trying to prove royal, or even English descent, we just want to know who and where we came from.  Unless one is a pure Native American, (formerly referred to as "Indians"), then every American is either an immigrant themselves, or descended from someone who emigrated here within the past 400 years.  And it's the immigration records that make going beyond recent history so tricky.  When we are able to succeed in struggling through the immigration records and tracing our ancestors to some place across the pond, it's a real accomplishment.

One possible theory as to why I think many people claim descent from famous folks is that the hard work has already been done for us -- the genealogies of the famous are well documented and readily available, and it therefore only takes making a connection to a recent ancestor to "hook into" the line of a more distant and perhaps famous (or infamous) one.

Recently, to our utter surprise, a cousin traced our Loper great-grandparents on my mother's side back to King Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine.  Eleanor and Henry are our 22nd great-grandparents.  Eleanor is supposedly descended from Charlemagne (still a bit sketchy on that one -- still some work to do there), so we list him as a possible ancestor of note, without yet having that lineage worked out completely.  It just makes for fun conversation when the family gets together. 

But that's all it really is -- a fun conversational topic within the family.  What would mean much more to us is if we could trace our lineage beyond my father's grandfather.  That branch of the family tree stops with him and has proven incredibly difficult to trace.  If I were able to find out more about him and determine the names of his parents, grandparents, etc., it would mean so much more to me than this English royalty.  I'd gladly throw back all that English heritage to gain more information about my Danish ancestors.

And regarding relationships to more shady, infamous folks, we haven't yet found evidence of a relationship to Attila the Hun, but my sister-in-law is descended from Dr. Mudd, the physician who set John Wilkes Boothe's broken leg after he assassinated Abraham Lincoln.  Mudd's name truly is mud in America!

-Mary
British Royal Family -- King Henry II is my 22nd great-grandfather!

Offline bloomkitty

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Re: Blue Blood
« Reply #7 on: Monday 06 September 04 18:41 BST (UK) »
A cachet for americans is to trace their ancestry back to the original "Mayflower Settlers".

I've never understood the prestige of being a Mayflower descendent, as they weren't even the first English settlement in America.  The Jamestown, Virginia settlers have them beat by 13 years, first arriving in 1607.

Quote
According to the number of americans claiming descent from the original settlers, there must have been several thousand passengers on the Mayflower.  The "complete list"... says 99 !

Not sure about your backwards math, here, but I do know another source (http://www.mayflower.org/pilgrim.htm) has the headcount on the boat at 102.  But only about half survived the first winter.  I count roughly 13 generations between 1620 and now.  After thirteen generations, starting with anywhere from 25 to 50 couples each producing multiple children, it is very plausible that there are currently millions of Mayflower descendents.

-Mary
British Royal Family -- King Henry II is my 22nd great-grandfather!

Offline Tariana

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Re: Blue Blood
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 16 March 05 08:08 GMT (UK) »
Actually, some may not be too far off.
Claiming Queen Elizabeth I as your gggggggggreadmother may be pushing it a bit.
Think about it, seriously. The kings and queens of long and not so long ago did at times have more than one child. Say a king and queen had 12 children. They can't ALL be king or queen of England. Granted some got married off to other nobility. Now, those 12 children each have, say 8, 6, or 5 children of their own, and so on and so forth.....
I'll do a real life example, from my own tree.
Okay a couple marries and has 6 children
From those 6 children they get 30 grandchildren, then they... I think you get the idea.
I don't have any known ancestry from the Mayflower, but I have found some royal blood. I'll put it up for critiquing? if anyone wants me to. If you can disprove a line, I'd be grateful.

http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=5921
http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=6684